Barack Obama has promised to sign this piece of legislation as soon as he is sworn into office. What it will mean if it passes:
1)All hospitals, even Catholic ones, will be required to perform abortions. Roughly one-third of all hospitals are run by the Catholic Church. Rather than go against Church teaching, these hospitals would be shut down by the Catholic Church.
2) Partial-birth abortions would once again be legal and have no limitations.
3) All U. S. taxpayers will be forced to be complicit in the funding of abortions.
4) Parental notification will no longer be required when a minor daughter seeks an abortion.
Pray for a defeat of FOCA. You may consider saying a novena--series of prayers over 9 days along with at least 2 days or more of fasting. It starts today, January 11.
Comments (27)
thanks for the info.
Im with you on this one, You dont like my avitar? it is amusing yes? You should check out my xanga blog
please explain your number 3....how will I be paying for abortions...and further more I can quarantee you that the catholic church will NOT close down thier hospitals...not only are they in the red NOW they stand to go FURTHER into the red if they do as you "say" so no...as someone who actually HAD to go through an abortion YESTERDAY ...no I have a right to choose what I do with my own body bye bye now
@princesstrini - I have read heard more recently that the Catholic bishops promise not to close the Catholic hospitals. They also say they will never allow abortions to be done there. Abortion is in direct opposition to the Catholic Faith. There could be some 1st Amendment lawsuits if they are forced to perform abortions. Civil disobedience will also play a part if this passes.
As far as funding of FOCA, I understand there will be taxpayer funded abortions even greater than there already is. Planned is Parenthood is already taxpayer funded.
nrlc.org/FOCA/LawmakersProposeFOCA.html
Pro Choicers should worry, too, because there seem to be instances in this bill in which abortion would be forced upon them by the government if this passes.
so romic...quick question..the catholic church also do not agree with birth control...should every clinic OB-gyn, etc. stop giving out birth control because the catholic church will stop funding them?
@princesstrini - I will answer you with another question, should every OB-Gyn be forced to perform abortions if he or she is morally opposed to them? This is what is on the horizon. It was on the news just today.
Catholic Church doesn't fund any Ob-Gyn clinics or hospitals except those which it owns and operates. The Catholic Church accepts Natural Family Planning. www.ccli.org CCLI is the best know teacher of NFP. I hope I answered your question.
Another question is, can government mandates be put into place even if they discriminate against a particular religion?
thanks for posting this...you should check out my last 2 entries<8
A doctor's faith has nothing to do with his job.
If a physician fails to give someone proper health care because he's too busy imposing his beliefs on others then he is not fit to be a medical doctor, especially in this society.
How can you even claim its discrimination against Christians when their failure to provide medical health coverage to non believers that need it is discrimination on their part?
@misswonderj - The "health care" in question here is the murder of innocent life... in fact, I'd hardly call that "health care" at all.
Thanks for posting this! I am praying!! This Act is just disgusting!!
i am completely against FOCA but barach is actually spelled b-a-r-a-c-k. Â don't give the extremists more fuel against you thanks to spelling errors.
@QuantumStorm - Do you know the definition of health?
According to the AMA health is defined as the overall psychological, physical, and sociological well being and not merely the absence of disease.
In other words, health care has to apply to all factors in one's health do they not? Health care isn't limited to getting your flu shots people.
How about in cases when the child is going to kill the mother if she doesn't abort? Oh wait, you guys are usually at a standstill when that happens aren't you. The point is a physician goes to medical school to become just that. A physician. Not a preacher and definitely not someone who is going against his Hippocratic oath just because of his own personal opinions. His opinions if not medical are irrelevant.
If getting an abortion somehow helps one's health, they shouldn't hesitate to do their job based on their own opinion! I am personally against abortions; I would never have one myself but then again I realize that I'm in a position where if I get pregnant, its my choice to get pregnant. Other women don't necessarily have these choices and believe it or not adoption ISN'T always an option. And while I wouldn't get an abortion myself, I'm not going to infringe on someone else' right to get one just because I think differently from them. As a doctor you are supposed to look at conditions and procedures objectively. If everyone just lets their emotions run wild and spends all their time shoving their philosophies down people's throats our health care would be non existent.
The Catholic church is against using birth control and condoms, should we all of a sudden stop teaching people about safe sex because it offends you?
@misswonderj - Yes it does! You can't be a Catholic Christian on Sunday then perform abortions on Monday.
The Pope just advised Nancy Pelosi on the danger of going against the Church's teaching on abortion.
We have to live our faith 24/7 or what good is it! Someone who only practices it an hour a week is not really living their faith.
When would a woman need an abortion for health reasons? Abortions actually make future pregnancies more risky. Clinics always want to know about pregnancies that ended in abortion or misscarriage.
Safe sex? Condoms? Condoms can break especially if they are old or improperly stored. The only safe sex is: 1) no sex or 2) 'married' monogamous sex--preferably between two people of the opposite sex.
One real problem with FOCA is that it takes away choice. It expands abortion, too. Imagine if the government could order doctors to perform abortions if the woman is carrying a baby with a birth defect? What if the government wants the woman to abort just because it thinks that she has enough children? If someone is morally opposed to abortion on religious grounds this person could end up for civil disobedience in jail if this bill passes. Read the documents.
Any protection offered to survivors of abortion is thrown out, too. Late term abortion would return. Any baby 8 months along is full term and viable and doesn't deserve to have his brains suctioned out.
@romic - News flash: This is not a Christian nation. Someone being against abortion based on religious grounds? Irrelevant. Someone against adultery on religious grounds? Irrelevant. If someone goes through school being a physician its an assumption that they know this. And that it is their duty to provide health care to people who need it. Your religion is irrelevant to your job. If religion was relevant to someone's job do you know how many people would be fired right now? Do you know just how much worse the economy would be?
THINK.
@misswonderj -
"News flash: This is not a Christian
nation. Someone being against abortion based on religious grounds?
Irrelevant. Someone against adultery on religious grounds? Irrelevant.
If someone goes through school being a physician its an assumption that
they know this. And that it is their duty to provide health care to
people who need it. Your religion is irrelevant to your job. If
religion was relevant to someone's job do you know how many people
would be fired right now? Do you know just how much worse the economy
would be?
THINK."--IYO
However, whatever happened to diversity, or tolerance or compassion? Some athiests, if that is where you are coming from, really care about their fellow man.
Yes it is a doctor's duty to provide health care. Abortion is not health care, It is murder. It is actually violence against women, not just unborn babies. Most physicians do not want to be abortionists. Most abortionists are actually approaching retirement age. There is a movement afoot to force doctors into doing something against their conscience due to a lack of abortionists, if FOCA passes.
One's religion enters into every aspect of his/her life. No, I am not advocating Bible thumping. We can preach without words. Our religion and morality should encompass every aspect of our lives.
How would you feel if you were ordered to have an abortion but had chosen not to, but your doctor didn't take 'No' for answer? If FOCA passes, it could happen. Please follow the link in the third post. Read the bills.
@romic -
"It is actually violence against women, not just unborn babies."
Uhh wrong? Seeing as how its the women GETTING the abortion?
"Most abortionists are actually approaching retirement age."
Wrong again? In general the more liberal population comes from people who are at the age to be in college, not the age to be retiring.
"There is a movement afoot to force doctors
into doing something against their conscience due to a lack of
abortionists, if FOCA passes."
Lmao hysterically wrong.
"How would you feel if you were ordered to have an abortion but had chosen not to, but your doctor didn't take 'No' for answer?"
I think you got it backwards. A doctor wouldn't tell me to get an abortion actually. And a doctor wouldn't force procedure it either. Have you been to medical school? I highly doubt it.
If a woman wants an abortion it is her right to do so. So I'm guessing you're the type that prefers women to just punch themselves in the stomach causing themselves damage? Because abortions are going to happen whether they're banned or not. Would you rather it be done in an alley or done in a clinically safe area? I'm thinking you'd rather risk the life of the mother because you're too much of a coward to face up to the fact that your morals are different NOT better.
@misswonderj - "The Catholic church is against using birth
control and condoms, should we all of a sudden stop teaching people
about safe sex because it offends you?"
You make a good point -- don't force your ways on others; the Catholic Church can, and must, suggest that which is moral as being right for others; it can not, and does not, force its ways on others.
The secular world [here the medical industry] likewise can not force this elective procedure on Catholic hospitals.
I respect your choice, though I may disagree with it, please respect my choice, and the choices of medical workers. Freedom, what is it? What maintains it and what ends it? If FOCA passes, it will be a bad day for free people, and a lie will be law (freedom of choice = not free to choose = lie = injustice).
@misswonderj - 1) How many women do you know who had 'back alley abortions' ?
2) What makes you think I favor self inflicted abortions? Nothing I said ever even hints at that.
3) What makes you think abortion clinics are: safe, or even sanitary? Clearly they aren't safe for the one being aborted. They are deadly
4) What have you got against adoption?
FOCA is much stronger 'law' than Roe Vs. Wade. It is a different animal entirely. FOCA passes abortion will no longer be a 'choice'. There are many government mandates that are written into it; READ THE BILL.!!!
In many ways this it the most PRO-ABORTION piece of legislation to ever come along. Notice, I didn't say, 'Pro Choice' It goes well beyond that. For instance, China is 'Pro-Abortion'. Most couples are allowed 1 child only. Women have been arrested and had their babies forcibly removed from their wombs. With FOCA we could very well be moving in that direction.
If a woman is carrying a down syndrome baby, if she has too many babies, in the government's opinion the government will be able to force her into abortion. If FOCA passes.
Partial Birth abortion will be legal again if FOCA passes. Any baby that is performed on is able to live and breathe outside to womb, if delivered. www.priestforlife.org/partialbirth.html
Or just google: 'partial birth abortion'
FOCA takes away conscience clauses that are already on the books.
FOCA takes away states' rights to make their own abortion laws should Roe Vs. Wade be repealed.
Some so called Pro-Choice organizations actually offer scholarships for those who wish to become abortionists. Google 'abortionist shortage'. There are quiet a lot of hits. It is a fact. There is even an article on the ACLU site stating this. A person can be a liberal without wanting to be an abortionist.
Laugh all you want, then do some serious search engine work. Follow the links provided. Here is another: www.prolifeacrossamerica.org Click on 'fetal development'. You will see is isn't just about you.
Opinions are OK. Educated ones sound the most sensible. How much reading have you actually done on this subject?
Clarification: Any baby that partial birth abortion performed on is old enough to live and breathe outside to womb, if delivered alive. Usually, partial birth abortion is performed on babies in the third trimester of pregnancy. The doctor flips a baby into a breach position, then kills the baby as he is being born. The head is the last part to come out. By that point the baby is dead.
@romic - I know how they abort children that doesn't change my mind. =] I have nothing against adoption but I'm not going to go the extremist route and say that there is absolutely no place for abortion. If I had a down syndrome kid of course the government would want me to have them aborted. Why? Because for one the child would have a very hard life. Do you even THINK of the child or are you focused on how gruesome of a concept it is for you?
If I was pregnant with a child that had major defects that would ruin its life and inevitably cause death early on, YES abortion is an option for me.
Government regulated abortion clinics would have to go by government standards; which means yes they are clean and safe. Don't be an asshole.
"1) How many women do you know who had 'back alley abortions' ? "
Me personally? None because I live in the upper middle class sweet heart. And how the fuck do you think they're going to get statistics on something that happens in the lower classes when 1. They'd have to admit to it while its illegal, and 2. The researchers would have to FIND people willing to talk about their current situation, and quite frankly most researchers don't want to go and risk their lives in these poor neighborhoods and the people who live there don't exactly feel like taking the 30 minutes that they might not afford to give to answer a survey genius.
You really need to read up on poverty and its effects on health care in the US. Your naivety is astounding.
@misswonderj - As far as Down Syndrome goes, I have, in my life, known many with this condition. Many of them are very capable and all are extremely loving. Chris Burke had his own TV show in 1989. He has Down Syndrome. The show was called Life Goes On. He is actually a Pro Life activist. He is really articulate. How many people with Down Syndrome have you met?
You said that you favor the government FORCING a couple to abort a Down Syndrome baby, or one with other defects. That view is socialistic and rather extreme. Why do you support taking away the parents' right to raise their baby? Government intervention in health care is socialistic, especially in that instance. Does the government have a right to tell families how many children they may have?
Sometimes we hear about doctors recommending abortion in certain cases. Oftentimes the mother refuses and goes on to have an extremely normal, even gifted child. The doctor doesn't know everything.
Triple Screen Tests (Alpha Feto Protein Tests) can have false positives. Mothers often refuse these if they are Pro Life or Low Intervention. Some women don't like being hooked to machines when they deliver, nor do they want every possible test when they are pregnant.
If a politicians can't keep interstate bridges from collapsing, how in the world can they run health care. What right would they have to tell patients they need abortions? What right would the government have to tell doctors they must abort babies?
Why do you support FOCA? Have your read it yet? Even if you are Pro-Choice, you should oppose this bill. It expands abortion but limits choice. It will move us into socialism. Our abortion laws could become like China's.
Abortion is still a dangerous and sometimes deadly procedure for women. See below.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_21.asp
@romic - "He is actually a Pro Life activist. He is really articulate. How many people with Down Syndrome have you met?"
Duh he's a pro life advocate; he'd be a hypocrite otherwise considering he's on the list of possible abortions. Or do you not think about the obvious BIAS that you're shooting out? And who said anything about DS making people have bad personalities? You really think that's why they get aborted? You're an idiot. >.>
"You said that you favor the government
FORCING a couple to abort a Down Syndrome baby, or one with other
defects. That view is socialistic and rather extreme. Why do you
support taking away the parents' right to raise their baby? Government
intervention in health care is socialistic, especially in that
instance. Does the government have a right to tell families how many
children they may have?"
If that's socialist so what? What makes that BAD? If a child is going to grow up miserable in this society because of their defects I support abortion. The end. Don't make assumptions it makes you look stupid.
"Sometimes we hear about doctors
recommending abortion in certain cases. Oftentimes the mother refuses
and goes on to have an extremely normal, even gifted child. The doctor
doesn't know everything."
The doctor STILL knows more than you do. The end.
"Some women don't like being hooked to machines when they deliver, nor do they want every possible test when they are pregnant."
And these women are usually the ones that can't afford to have every test or did you not think of that? I personally can afford it and therefore want the best care for my child and for myself during pregnancy. I'm not seeing your point because you really don't have one!
"If a politicians can't keep interstate
bridges from collapsing, how in the world can they run health care.
What right would they have to tell patients they need abortions? What
right would the government have to tell doctors they must abort babies?"
You hate the government but you're still here. Why? Because they're doing a much better job than some commoner like you would do. And because they take the time to look at society from more than one view like most commoners FAIL to do, they are far more qualified to regulate the nation than any average citizen is because they WORK to do so and they WORK to keep everything in check. You as a citizen only bitch. You don't like it? GTFO.
"Why do you support FOCA? Have your read it
yet? Even if you are Pro-Choice, you should oppose this bill. It
expands abortion but limits choice. It will move us into socialism. Our
abortion laws could become like China's."
So because my opinion differs I must not have read it? YES I have read it. Believe it or not everyone thinks like you. There's a shocker!
"Abortion is still a dangerous and sometimes deadly procedure for women. See below."
No shit! Any procedure invading the human body is dangerous! But I'm not gonna stop going to the doctor because I'm scared shitless of what COULD happen. I go there for one purpose and one purpose only; to get the health care that I need to be done. Not to listen to some Bible thumper tell me what I should believe. Not to hear UNQUALIFIED IGNORANT citizens telling me what I can and cannot do. To get my goddamn health care that I am privileged with. And until you actually live in the medical world and have a chance to look at the government past the eyes of someone who knows nothing ABOUT their government then you should not even be speaking about what they're doing. Period.
@misswonderj - Check this out! I have a public page and you get to come here and be condescending, profane and verbally abusive whenever you want. You say you are upper middle class, but I am amazed at your language. Your page is locked which means: 1) you won't return the favor and play fair or 2) you are a minor and Mommy and Daddy want communicating only with your friends from high school.
You said that you don't want unqualified and ignorant people telling you what you can and can not do. I feel the same way. This is exactly why the government should stay out of our hospitals and clinics. It is not their place to say who gets to be born and who doesn't.
It is a rather silly assumpton to assume that those who are: mentally or physically disabled live unhappy lives and would be better off dead. The ones I know are plenty happy. Why are you so unhappy?
Regarding disadvantaged women, there are charites that help those who are in crisis pregnancies. Don't assume they can't get: prenatal care, diaper, formula, baby clothes and furniture. It is free.
As far as socialism, it is bad because is does take the place of religion in countries that have it. Look at China. Religion is largely a major felony. Those who practice their faith are sometimes tortured. In Russia, some Churches are tolerated, others are not.
If you want freedom, as you said above, then you can't mix it with socialism, or you may find that the government will be telling what you can and can't do in every instance (where to live, where to work, what car, if any, to drive). If you think we should all be equal in misery, then socialism is the answer. There is no upper middle class in socialism. Under socialism everyone is a 'commoner'.
The trouble with those who don't believe in anything is that they will fall for everything. The government should not take the place of our parents, or our God. We do not need a nanny state that cares for citizens from the cradle (if they don't get aborted first) to the grave.
Doctors and patients are a team, and parents don't need elected officials butting in and telling them how many children they can and can't have. An unborn child shouldn't get less consideration than a death row inmate. The truth is death row inmates have more rights.
BTW, Natural childbirth is a choice, not a sentence for poor women. Any healthy woman can choose to have one. Uneeded intervention isn't always the most helpful. (If you don't get this, it is because you haven't lived long enough.)
I am surprised by your anger. Why are you so angry? I seem to have struck a nerve! I hope you aren't considering having an abortion.
Am I biased? Heck yeah! This is MY BLOG! Don't ever forget it!!
Remember: debate the issue, not the person.
@romic - LOL Cute how you can't counter my argument so you make assumptions about my life. Which in turn make me laugh harder at you because you're completely off hahahaha.
But nice try you failure. Done with you. =]
Dismissed. =D